Yes, church programs are important, especially if you have children. Parents are happy to send their children to church-related activities when they are available. Children need support even more than adults sometimes.

I do believe in flexibility, meeting the needs of the church members. Why in the world would you not want to do that?

Scripture tells us that before the foundations of the world were laid, God purposed and chose His elect that they should be holy and without blame before Him.
Ephesians, Chapter 1.

As regards a babe in the womb, we must bring to remembance the Word in Luke.

John the Baptizer “leaped for joy” in Elizabeth’s womb when Mary announced the coming Messiah and sang the Magnificat to the cousin and her yet to be born child.

The criminal on the cross next to the Christ, looks into the face of Truth, and pleads: “Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”

And our Savior responds with the words of promise and grace……

“Today shalt thou be with me in Paradise …. ”
Luke 23:43

A child in the womb and a death bed convert, the believing babe yet unborn and the dying criminal, covered by the blood of Christ……..

I believe that the Lutheran Confessions are in agreement with Holy Scripture. Else I would not be, obviously, a Confessional Lutheran.
So it is to the Lutheran font and altar I go.

Still, couldn’t we Lutherans apprehend rather easily the joy that Don S. expresses at the faith of his son?

When I first commented, I had no intention of debating Lutheran v. Baptist theology (I’m not even Baptist, though I was raised as one).

To respond to the last few questions: LAJ @ 36 — the salvation of infants and the profoundly disabled is an interesting and difficult issue. Many Protestants rely on the so-called “Age of Accountability” doctrine to comfort themselves regarding the salvation of those who die without the ability to understand God’s plan of salvation. I can’t find a whole lot of Scriptural support for that, so my comfort derives from my certain knowledge that God is just and wise, and a belief that the Holy Spirit in His almighty power is certainly capable of granting saving faith to such folks, reaching them in whatever condition they are in. So, to answer your question specifically, I don’t know precisely when my son became a believer, but I know when he was able to express his understanding of the Gospel and his belief in Christ as his sole means of salvation.

To turn the question around a little, for purposes of understanding more about the Lutheran point of view, would your son have been saved if he had passed away prior to his baptism? Was his soul in mortal danger during those few days after his birth until the baptism could be performed? What if he had died in utero?

Bryan @ 37: “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and thy house”…. “For God so loved the world that He sent His only Son that WHOSOEVER believeth on Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. ” Another great passage is I Cor. 15:3-5. Need I go on? I believe the promises of my God, just as you do. I commune with Him regularly in prayer and fellowship, and I read His Word. Why should I not be assured? You have a misconception concerning my so-called “certain-yet-not-so-certain world”. The Gospel is certain, as certain as can be.

Bryan @ 39 — Ignoring “despise”, and accepting your later apology for what could easily be taken for a slur, I agree with you that salvation is entirely a gift of God, and not in any sense involving the work of man. We are entirely incapable of saving faith on our own. It is the Holy Spirit which draws us unto Himself. In human terms, we sometimes say that we made a decision for Christ, or accepted Christ, but we know with all our being that it was not we, in our own power, who made that choice. Nemo, at 42, said this quite well.

Theresa @ 45 — “no doctrinal agreement, no fellowship”. Really? Do we have NO doctrinal agreement? We share, due to the grace of almighty God, eternal salvation in Christ. I would be more than pleased to fellowship with you and all of the other good Lutherans on this blog, and suspect we would all be the richer for the experience. More to the point I was making originally, although our faith practices may be quite different, I would be pleased to minister side-by-side with confessional Lutherans in fulfilling the Great Commission of Matt. 8:28, which is, after all, our purpose for being here.

Thinking more on the basis for picking a church: Someday I may be in the blessed situation of trying to find a faithful church to go to with my wife. My children will probably be grown so I won’t care one iota for “programs”. What I will be looking for is a congregation with a Pastor who takes seriously the Lutheran Confessions, where I can hear God’s Word rightly divided so that God’s Law smites me with all of His ferocity and His Gospel sooths and comforts me better than the finest of Bourbons and where I can come to receive the Sacrament of Holy Communion often (hopefully every Sunday). If I can find that when I know I’ll need it so bad, ooh, life will be sweet indeed!

“If the baptist has no real claim on the cross, how can he have a real claim on salvation? It sounds as if you believe Christ’s death is not applied to him. After spending a few days on this blog, I am really beginning to wonder, will there be any non-Lutherans in heaven?”

In ‘the old days’ at the seminary, doctrine, apologetics, and polemics used to be taught separately which is one reason I think we had such a strong history of outreach and mission work – because we could distinguish the three.

Taking the last first, “apologetics” is the explanation of what one believes through further clarification. This should be a friendly, mutually beneficial discussion so that we might better understand each other. I see several comments and portions of comments here that reflect good apologetics.

Polemics, on the other hand, the assertion of the proper understanding and expression of a truth over-against the assertion of others. I find that polemics is best left to the true theologians who already understand each other fully and are ready to battle it out in hopes of reaching one statement that all parties can agree upon.

Finally (or perhaps first, actually) is proclamation. Like good preaching, proclamation takes the Word of God, both Law and Gospel properly divided and applies it to individual hearts in a winsome manner.

What are we trying to achieve here: the conversion of other Christians into Lutherans, the defense of our denominational belief and practice, or the salvation of souls?

I would hope that we are not herein trying to save souls but can recognize the confession of saving faith in Christ by (nearly) all who post here.

I would also hope that we recognize that not very many of us are thoroughgoing theologians who have already come to a full understanding of the others’ positions and are engaging each other in challenging the expressions of our faith. In other words, I don’t think we’re going to sway Lutherans away from the Confessions or Baptists toward infant Baptism. We just don’t have that much influence over each other.

So that leaves apologetics which, again, focuses on trying to state our beliefs clearly toward fuller understanding and Christian dialogue.

With that in mind, perhaps I may add a few clarifications:

Nemo @29 : Lutherans can allow that Baptism is not necessary in order for God to save us while also asserting the true nature of Baptism. In my mind, it would be like allowing someone to be an American even though they don’t vote. For me, voting is of the essence of being an American. But you can also be an American without properly understanding what it is.

As to the nature of Baptism, I have always found it helpful to understand it like a little child on the Titanic while it is sinking. Even though the infant doesn’t know it, it still needs to be saved. Baptism is like the life preserver God puts on the infant even though the infant doesn’t understand it. Certainly God would not wait to give a life preserver only to those who know enough to ask for it. Therefore, ’salvation’ is God’s doing when He marks me as His own and bestows on me His saving gift. I think that would be a non-polemical way to bring clarification to the Lutheran (and I believe Biblical) understanding of Baptism.

To Bror and Bryan: we have clashed a bit before even though we share the same subscription to Scripture and the Book of Concord – which I do not question in you. However, our theology does allow for what the orthodox Lutherans called a “happy inconsistency” meaning that faith in the heart can be inconsistent with our understand and words. This would be a good or ‘happy’ thing if the expression of faith in word and deed was contrary to the one true faith which is believed in the heart – that Christ alone saves us. With that in mind, we can put the best construction on those who have, as we understand it, a faulty expression of faith while at the same time helping them to see a truly better way of understanding and expression. Too often I fear we give others the impression that unless they say it ‘our way’ we believe them to be lost. Not at all! It is Christ who saves – not proper behavior, feeling, or understanding/expression.

I pledge myself to articulate the Biblical doctrine (teaching) as I have come to understand and confess it without passing judgment on whether or not others have saving faith with the hope of bringing glory to Christ through the most God-pleasing (i.e. faithful) proclamation of His Word. I address this to my brothers in Ministry and shared Confession so that others may hear how we hope to proclaim the Word.