http://www.whatswrongwiththeworld.net/2008/06/barack_obama_religious_citizen.html

Concerning the role of religion in our legislation and government:

“It is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles
upon which freedom can securely stand.”

— President John Quincy Adams, 1776

“A trained intelligence can do much, but there is no substitute for morality,
character and religious conviction “–Pres. Calvin Coolidge, 1924

“The belief in a God All Powerful wise and good, is so essential to the moral order of the world and to the happiness of man, that arguments which enforce it cannot be drawn from too many sources nor adapted with too much solicitude to the different characters and capacities impressed with it.” —James Madison

Lastly from George Washington’s farewell speech:

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. … Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. “

as always your posts provoke thought dear brother… i THINK obama is saying that all legislation needs to be based on the best of secular logic, as in aristotle’s moralism or the stoics…

that reason and reasoned debate need to be the common basis for our society, and that religious arguments have no place in the governmental sphere.

I am thinking that if this is not so, our form of american government is unworkable.

as for your example of anwar, I think this misses the mark and manifests a misunderstanding on your part of obama’s views (and my own actually). Obama is in the strong tradition of the liberal deists who founded our country and those who pushed for a separation of church and state.

P.S. Maybe Dobson should find a good seminary to attend – He could be a second-career guy.

Personally, I find Dobson and other fundamentalists like himself to be a bit embarrassing.