Comments on: Germany’s dull and effective chancellor http://www.geneveith.com/germanys-dull-and-effective-chancellor/_3763/ Christianity, Culture, Vocation Mon, 22 Mar 2010 13:48:08 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Bror Erickson http://www.geneveith.com/germanys-dull-and-effective-chancellor/_3763/#comment-71014 Bror Erickson Wed, 11 Nov 2009 01:58:06 +0000 http://www.geneveith.com/?p=3763#comment-71014 Peter, Did you read tODD's statement before you commented? He has made a very good point, and it was a slam against J, not a smear on the Christian Democratic Party of Germany. Don't get so caught up in your culture war that you start taking out those who are trying to help you. Yes tODD it does happen from time to time, but don't let it fool you I'm still a conservative. Peter,
Did you read tODD’s statement before you commented? He has made a very good point, and it was a slam against J, not a smear on the Christian Democratic Party of Germany. Don’t get so caught up in your culture war that you start taking out those who are trying to help you.
Yes tODD it does happen from time to time, but don’t let it fool you I’m still a conservative.

]]> By: Bruce Gee http://www.geneveith.com/germanys-dull-and-effective-chancellor/_3763/#comment-71008 Bruce Gee Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:21:09 +0000 http://www.geneveith.com/?p=3763#comment-71008 Ahem. Back to the topic. What may be of value to note is that often it is the quiet, unflamboyant leader who quietly gets a lot done. I don't like Herb Kohl and have never voted for him, but, while he doesn't put forth a lot of legislation with his name on it, he does do a lot of backroom things that have been effective and helpful (an example is his getting the IRS to extend the sorts of cafeteria plans that large corporations have enjoyed to farmers and the self-employed). I would go further: those leaders who are both charismatic AND effective probably aren't all that effective, but have very effective staffs or aides. Tommy Thompson comes to mind. Sort of a political idiot savant, but he had a chief of staff who could work political miracles. The guy (Krausse) was totally unelectable, but worked very well behind the scenes, where most of the action is anyway. Lyndon Johnson. Anyone want to do one on ole Lyndon? Perhaps the best operative to sit in the oval office in my lifetime. About as charismatic as a toadstool, but connected. As for what defines "effective": thar's the rub. It all depends upon your political orientation whether you think a leader is effective. Lots of people are saying Obama is so, and lots are making long lists of his lack of accomplishments (see the recent rather hilarious opening SNL skit a few weeks ago.). Ahem. Back to the topic. What may be of value to note is that often it is the quiet, unflamboyant leader who quietly gets a lot done. I don’t like Herb Kohl and have never voted for him, but, while he doesn’t put forth a lot of legislation with his name on it, he does do a lot of backroom things that have been effective and helpful (an example is his getting the IRS to extend the sorts of cafeteria plans that large corporations have enjoyed to farmers and the self-employed).

I would go further: those leaders who are both charismatic AND effective probably aren’t all that effective, but have very effective staffs or aides. Tommy Thompson comes to mind. Sort of a political idiot savant, but he had a chief of staff who could work political miracles. The guy (Krausse) was totally unelectable, but worked very well behind the scenes, where most of the action is anyway.

Lyndon Johnson. Anyone want to do one on ole Lyndon? Perhaps the best operative to sit in the oval office in my lifetime. About as charismatic as a toadstool, but connected.

As for what defines “effective”: thar’s the rub. It all depends upon your political orientation whether you think a leader is effective. Lots of people are saying Obama is so, and lots are making long lists of his lack of accomplishments (see the recent rather hilarious opening SNL skit a few weeks ago.).

]]> By: tODD http://www.geneveith.com/germanys-dull-and-effective-chancellor/_3763/#comment-70993 tODD Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:30:08 +0000 http://www.geneveith.com/?p=3763#comment-70993 Note that my sentiments actually mirror Bror's (@15) here (it happens from time to time). I'm probably not as convinced as he is about what we're doing in Afghanistan these days, but I do think the military is at least trying to prevent more deaths (by the Taliban) than it is trying to cause the death of bystanders. I just thought it was funny that J apparently favored the way things are in Germany, where they actually have the word "Christian" in their political parties' names. Peter (@17), what, exactly, is Christian about the Christian Democratic Union? What "Christian principles" do you find so obvious in its politics? Note that my sentiments actually mirror Bror’s (@15) here (it happens from time to time). I’m probably not as convinced as he is about what we’re doing in Afghanistan these days, but I do think the military is at least trying to prevent more deaths (by the Taliban) than it is trying to cause the death of bystanders.

I just thought it was funny that J apparently favored the way things are in Germany, where they actually have the word “Christian” in their political parties’ names.

Peter (@17), what, exactly, is Christian about the Christian Democratic Union? What “Christian principles” do you find so obvious in its politics?

]]> By: tODD http://www.geneveith.com/germanys-dull-and-effective-chancellor/_3763/#comment-70992 tODD Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:21:01 +0000 http://www.geneveith.com/?p=3763#comment-70992 J (@14), you're aware that Germany is participating in the war in Afghanistan, aren't you? And that sometimes <a href="http://features.csmonitor.com/globalnews/2009/09/08/germany%E2%80%99s-merkel-under-seige-after-afghanistan-airstrike/" rel="nofollow">involves the loss of innocent life</a>. Is the Christian Democratic Union doing everything it can to get Germany out of Afghanistan? Or are they, in Christ's name, "supporting wars that kill lots of innocent people"? J (@14), you’re aware that Germany is participating in the war in Afghanistan, aren’t you? And that sometimes involves the loss of innocent life. Is the Christian Democratic Union doing everything it can to get Germany out of Afghanistan? Or are they, in Christ’s name, “supporting wars that kill lots of innocent people”?

]]> By: Peter Leavitt http://www.geneveith.com/germanys-dull-and-effective-chancellor/_3763/#comment-70991 Peter Leavitt Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:14:51 +0000 http://www.geneveith.com/?p=3763#comment-70991 Todd, The Christian Democratic Union tries to apply in a broad and sophisticated way Christian principles to complex political issues. It has contributed two very and able and respected leaders, Konrad Adenauer and Angela Merkel, to the German nation. Your sneering remark about this party is uncalled for unless you can cite evidence that this party uses Christ's name in an unseemly way to promote its politics. J, your remark that Americans scream "USA" every America kills a brown child in Afghanistan reveals a rather callous mean spiritedness. One can debate the issue of the war in Afghanistan without bringing up such a reductio ad absurdum. Todd, The Christian Democratic Union tries to apply in a broad and sophisticated way Christian principles to complex political issues. It has contributed two very and able and respected leaders, Konrad Adenauer and Angela Merkel, to the German nation. Your sneering remark about this party is uncalled for unless you can cite evidence that this party uses Christ’s name in an unseemly way to promote its politics.

J, your remark that Americans scream “USA” every America kills a brown child in Afghanistan reveals a rather callous mean spiritedness. One can debate the issue of the war in Afghanistan without bringing up such a reductio ad absurdum.

]]> By: Joe http://www.geneveith.com/germanys-dull-and-effective-chancellor/_3763/#comment-70990 Joe Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:08:31 +0000 http://www.geneveith.com/?p=3763#comment-70990 "What is crazy here is you don’t see your own hypocrisy in trying to shame people for using the name of Christ for their political ends, in essence you are using it for your own political ends." Nail. On. Head. “What is crazy here is you don’t see your own hypocrisy in trying to shame people for using the name of Christ for their political ends, in essence you are using it for your own political ends.”

Nail. On. Head.

]]> By: Bror Erickson http://www.geneveith.com/germanys-dull-and-effective-chancellor/_3763/#comment-70989 Bror Erickson Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:56:02 +0000 http://www.geneveith.com/?p=3763#comment-70989 J, So are you defending or deploring the killing of innocent people? Somehow you think innocent children that haven't come to term yet deserve to die while our "health care" system pays for it. Yet you think we should end a war where relatively few innocent people are killed in comparison to the many that would be killed if we were to just let the Taliban, and Al Quaida have there way. You see, I don't like it when innocent people are killed either way. But I see the military in Afghanistan as defending and preserving lives, rather than harping on them for doing a hard job. What is crazy here is you don't see your own hypocrisy in trying to shame people for using the name of Christ for their political ends, in essence you are using it for your own political ends. As for religious wingnuts, Merkel's followers don't make her out to be the Messiah either. J,
So are you defending or deploring the killing of innocent people? Somehow you think innocent children that haven’t come to term yet deserve to die while our “health care” system pays for it. Yet you think we should end a war where relatively few innocent people are killed in comparison to the many that would be killed if we were to just let the Taliban, and Al Quaida have there way.
You see, I don’t like it when innocent people are killed either way. But I see the military in Afghanistan as defending and preserving lives, rather than harping on them for doing a hard job.
What is crazy here is you don’t see your own hypocrisy in trying to shame people for using the name of Christ for their political ends, in essence you are using it for your own political ends. As for religious wingnuts, Merkel’s followers don’t make her out to be the Messiah either.

]]> By: J http://www.geneveith.com/germanys-dull-and-effective-chancellor/_3763/#comment-70988 J Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:44:49 +0000 http://www.geneveith.com/?p=3763#comment-70988 tODD @13. Not quite. I wasn't lamenting that only in America do people use the name of Christ politically. Rather, I was lamenting that only in America do people use the name of Christ to justify opposing the extension of health care to the sick and supporting wars that kill lots of innocent people. If there's a sizeable number of Germans doing that in Germany (or anywhere else), I'll need someone to bring them to my attention. I haven't heard of them. Hence, only in America. tODD @13.
Not quite. I wasn’t lamenting that only in America do people use the name of Christ politically. Rather, I was lamenting that only in America do people use the name of Christ to justify opposing the extension of health care to the sick and supporting wars that kill lots of innocent people.
If there’s a sizeable number of Germans doing that in Germany (or anywhere else), I’ll need someone to bring them to my attention. I haven’t heard of them. Hence, only in America.

]]> By: tODD http://www.geneveith.com/germanys-dull-and-effective-chancellor/_3763/#comment-70986 tODD Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:28:32 +0000 http://www.geneveith.com/?p=3763#comment-70986 J (@12), can we just pause for a minute and savor the irony? You're lamenting how "only in America" do people "use the name of Christ" to justify their political positions ... and praising Angela Merkel ... who ... wait for it ... is the chairwoman of ... trying to play up the anticipation here ... the Christian Democratic Union. Okay, sure, they don't <i>mean</i> it anymore, it's just a historical artifact, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think your question would be more interesting if truncated: "Who in Germany is using the name of Christ?" J (@12), can we just pause for a minute and savor the irony?

You’re lamenting how “only in America” do people “use the name of Christ” to justify their political positions … and praising Angela Merkel … who … wait for it … is the chairwoman of … trying to play up the anticipation here … the Christian Democratic Union.

Okay, sure, they don’t mean it anymore, it’s just a historical artifact, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think your question would be more interesting if truncated: “Who in Germany is using the name of Christ?”

]]> By: J http://www.geneveith.com/germanys-dull-and-effective-chancellor/_3763/#comment-70983 J Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:15:57 +0000 http://www.geneveith.com/?p=3763#comment-70983 Brad, thanks for underscoring my point that Merkle does not have the problems Obama does. Who in Germany is using the name of Christ to justify their demands for the dismantling of the German health care system and for German soldiers to kill noncombatants in other countries? Only in America. Brad, thanks for underscoring my point that Merkle does not have the problems Obama does. Who in Germany is using the name of Christ to justify their demands for the dismantling of the German health care system and for German soldiers to kill noncombatants in other countries? Only in America.

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