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	<title>Comments on: Bishops should be apt to teach</title>
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	<link>http://www.geneveith.com/bishops-should-be-apt-to-teach/_179/</link>
	<description>Christianity, Culture, Vocation</description>
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		<title>By: Stephenie</title>
		<link>http://www.geneveith.com/bishops-should-be-apt-to-teach/_179/#comment-1724</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephenie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I know this isn&#039;t the point you&#039;re dwelling on, but I&#039;m a little ticked that the headline for this story was so deceiving.  It read that the Nativity (meaning the birth of Christ, to most people) is considered a fraud by leaders of the Church.  

Then, I read that it&#039;s the whole Nativity scene - the Christmas card we&#039;re so used to seeing.  Well, duh! That&#039;s not exactly what was implied by the headline, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know this isn&#8217;t the point you&#8217;re dwelling on, but I&#8217;m a little ticked that the headline for this story was so deceiving.  It read that the Nativity (meaning the birth of Christ, to most people) is considered a fraud by leaders of the Church.  </p>
<p>Then, I read that it&#8217;s the whole Nativity scene &#8211; the Christmas card we&#8217;re so used to seeing.  Well, duh! That&#8217;s not exactly what was implied by the headline, though.</p>
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		<title>By: aamirayubi &#187; Bishops should be apt to teach</title>
		<link>http://www.geneveith.com/bishops-should-be-apt-to-teach/_179/#comment-1713</link>
		<dc:creator>aamirayubi &#187; Bishops should be apt to teach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 07:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geneveith.com/bishops-should-be-apt-to-teach/_179/#comment-1713</guid>
		<description>[...] Check it out! While looking through the blogosphere we stumbled on an interesting post today.Here&#8217;s a quick excerptHe was casting doubt on the conventional Christmas card scene, which is nothing new or faith-threatening to well-instructed Christians. Unfortunately, today’s Brits are not, on the whole, so well-instructed. (The Archbishop did say that &#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Check it out! While looking through the blogosphere we stumbled on an interesting post today.Here&#8217;s a quick excerptHe was casting doubt on the conventional Christmas card scene, which is nothing new or faith-threatening to well-instructed Christians. Unfortunately, today’s Brits are not, on the whole, so well-instructed. (The Archbishop did say that &#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: tODD</title>
		<link>http://www.geneveith.com/bishops-should-be-apt-to-teach/_179/#comment-1696</link>
		<dc:creator>tODD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:38:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geneveith.com/bishops-should-be-apt-to-teach/_179/#comment-1696</guid>
		<description>Patrick (@4), yeah, I had to look that one up, too. &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2172918.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&#039;s a BBC article&lt;/a&gt; on the matter.

I don&#039;t think it&#039;s fair to say he&#039;s a capital-D Druid, really. The best explanation might be to say that he was inducted into a Welsh cultural group with odd ceremonies that might be perceived as Druidic. I don&#039;t think it&#039;s too much to say that a person in his position might wisely have avoided the confusion of this ceremony.

Read the Wikipedia article on &quot;Gorsedd&quot; for more information, particularly the sections on &quot;History&quot;, &quot;Ranks&quot;, and &quot;Admission&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick (@4), yeah, I had to look that one up, too. <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2172918.stm" rel="nofollow">Here&#8217;s a BBC article</a> on the matter.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s fair to say he&#8217;s a capital-D Druid, really. The best explanation might be to say that he was inducted into a Welsh cultural group with odd ceremonies that might be perceived as Druidic. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s too much to say that a person in his position might wisely have avoided the confusion of this ceremony.</p>
<p>Read the Wikipedia article on &#8220;Gorsedd&#8221; for more information, particularly the sections on &#8220;History&#8221;, &#8220;Ranks&#8221;, and &#8220;Admission&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: FW</title>
		<link>http://www.geneveith.com/bishops-should-be-apt-to-teach/_179/#comment-1692</link>
		<dc:creator>FW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:45:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>my point was this

&quot;It is that you have bishops who deny the Incarnation, the Resurrection, and even sometimes the existence of God. You have bishops who are Druids and syncretists. You have bishops who want to conform to the world rather than teaching God’s Word. &quot; The most prominent priest in orange county who wants to seceed has a wife who is an anglican  priest...&quot;

so what it took to finally stir things up....the thing that could not be tolerated like all of these other things HAVE been tolerated for years....  

the issue of homosexuality.....

what is wrong with this picture?

I am not yet convinced because of all this that the anglican conservative movement is conservative theogically or culturally at its root. .....  it matters.  Let´s not rush to decide that this cause within Anglicanism is at one with our own in every respect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my point was this</p>
<p>&#8220;It is that you have bishops who deny the Incarnation, the Resurrection, and even sometimes the existence of God. You have bishops who are Druids and syncretists. You have bishops who want to conform to the world rather than teaching God’s Word. &#8221; The most prominent priest in orange county who wants to seceed has a wife who is an anglican  priest&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>so what it took to finally stir things up&#8230;.the thing that could not be tolerated like all of these other things HAVE been tolerated for years&#8230;.  </p>
<p>the issue of homosexuality&#8230;..</p>
<p>what is wrong with this picture?</p>
<p>I am not yet convinced because of all this that the anglican conservative movement is conservative theogically or culturally at its root. &#8230;..  it matters.  Let´s not rush to decide that this cause within Anglicanism is at one with our own in every respect.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.geneveith.com/bishops-should-be-apt-to-teach/_179/#comment-1689</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dr. Veith,

    Please elaborate on the comment that the archbishop is a Druid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Veith,</p>
<p>    Please elaborate on the comment that the archbishop is a Druid.</p>
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		<title>By: Fr. Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.geneveith.com/bishops-should-be-apt-to-teach/_179/#comment-1686</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr. Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.geneveith.com/bishops-should-be-apt-to-teach/_179/#comment-1686</guid>
		<description>&quot;What&#039;s Wrong With Anglicans?&quot; gets a lot of discussion these days, particularly among those Anglicans who could make a credible case for their own &quot;mere Christianity.&quot;  Dr. Veith suggests the communion needs Christian bishops.  

But, they have them!  Whether Rowan Williams is among them makes an interesting discussion (I vote &quot;no&quot;).  Though the number of bishops who are demonstrably orthodox within The Episcopal Church (TEC) is rapidly diminishing and has been a minority for at least a generation, a few are still to be found.

So, here&#039;s an alternative answer to &quot;what went wrong?&quot;

The fault does not lie with unorthodox bishops, or with any of their crack-pot, apostate, or heretical points of view.  The fault lies squarely with those who make a claim to orthodoxy, because they have consistently, unswervingly, stubbornly refused to contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints.

To put the matter bluntly, Anglicans of all stripes are loathe to discipline the errant within their own ranks.  I speak as a recently ordained Anglican priest who has watched the dissolution of TEC from the inside (as a layman) for the past 20 years.  In that time we&#039;ve seen the fruits of a deeply rooted aversion to discipline that goes back at least 50 years in the American church.  

Some make a good argument that this aversion to discipline is constitutional -- that the English Reformation from its beginning was crippled by this flaw.  Whether this idea is true or not, it is certainly true that this flaw must be corrected if the English Reformation is to recover from its current chaos.

It would be comical, were it not so tragic, to watch those among the orthodox Anglicans who formerly lacked the cojones to discipline their own ranks to begin to grow them.  They resemble roosters who discover that they does not know how to crow, who utter impotent and silly squeaks instead.

Though a cradle anabaptist, I am now an Anglican for good and compelling reasons.  But, if the English Reformation is to have a renaissance in the next generation or so, it will be because it developes the willingness to discipline the hererodox within its own ranks.  And, even that development will arise from among those who come into Anglcian Christianity from the outside, and not otherwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What&#8217;s Wrong With Anglicans?&#8221; gets a lot of discussion these days, particularly among those Anglicans who could make a credible case for their own &#8220;mere Christianity.&#8221;  Dr. Veith suggests the communion needs Christian bishops.  </p>
<p>But, they have them!  Whether Rowan Williams is among them makes an interesting discussion (I vote &#8220;no&#8221;).  Though the number of bishops who are demonstrably orthodox within The Episcopal Church (TEC) is rapidly diminishing and has been a minority for at least a generation, a few are still to be found.</p>
<p>So, here&#8217;s an alternative answer to &#8220;what went wrong?&#8221;</p>
<p>The fault does not lie with unorthodox bishops, or with any of their crack-pot, apostate, or heretical points of view.  The fault lies squarely with those who make a claim to orthodoxy, because they have consistently, unswervingly, stubbornly refused to contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints.</p>
<p>To put the matter bluntly, Anglicans of all stripes are loathe to discipline the errant within their own ranks.  I speak as a recently ordained Anglican priest who has watched the dissolution of TEC from the inside (as a layman) for the past 20 years.  In that time we&#8217;ve seen the fruits of a deeply rooted aversion to discipline that goes back at least 50 years in the American church.  </p>
<p>Some make a good argument that this aversion to discipline is constitutional &#8212; that the English Reformation from its beginning was crippled by this flaw.  Whether this idea is true or not, it is certainly true that this flaw must be corrected if the English Reformation is to recover from its current chaos.</p>
<p>It would be comical, were it not so tragic, to watch those among the orthodox Anglicans who formerly lacked the cojones to discipline their own ranks to begin to grow them.  They resemble roosters who discover that they does not know how to crow, who utter impotent and silly squeaks instead.</p>
<p>Though a cradle anabaptist, I am now an Anglican for good and compelling reasons.  But, if the English Reformation is to have a renaissance in the next generation or so, it will be because it developes the willingness to discipline the hererodox within its own ranks.  And, even that development will arise from among those who come into Anglcian Christianity from the outside, and not otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: The Boar&#8217;s Head Tavern &#187;</title>
		<link>http://www.geneveith.com/bishops-should-be-apt-to-teach/_179/#comment-1684</link>
		<dc:creator>The Boar&#8217;s Head Tavern &#187;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Gene Edward Veith defends Rowan Williams in regard the Christmas thing, then blasts him for a much more serious failing.    Posted by: Kletos Sumboulos @ 9:58 am &#124; Trackback &#124; Permalink [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Gene Edward Veith defends Rowan Williams in regard the Christmas thing, then blasts him for a much more serious failing.    Posted by: Kletos Sumboulos @ 9:58 am | Trackback | Permalink [...]</p>
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		<title>By: FW</title>
		<link>http://www.geneveith.com/bishops-should-be-apt-to-teach/_179/#comment-1678</link>
		<dc:creator>FW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:33:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>a mark of the true decline of the anglican church is that often the homosexual and female clergy affirm core christian truths more clearly than the ones who see them as the root of the problem.  

I am in NO WAY saying by this that this &quot;balaam´s ass&quot; of a situation is a good one.  It merely underscores the depth of the problem.

I pray that we do not likewise become distracted by the Evil One.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a mark of the true decline of the anglican church is that often the homosexual and female clergy affirm core christian truths more clearly than the ones who see them as the root of the problem.  </p>
<p>I am in NO WAY saying by this that this &#8220;balaam´s ass&#8221; of a situation is a good one.  It merely underscores the depth of the problem.</p>
<p>I pray that we do not likewise become distracted by the Evil One.</p>
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